The player is loading ...
Feb. 19, 2025
189 - Simple things that work
This episode emphasises the value of focusing on simple things in fire safety engineering, something we somehow miss when we go too deep into the technical details of our projects. I've looked at eight different aspects of fire safety - inspired by the CPR requirements, and I've added resiliency, redundancy and suppression to them. By promoting straightforward guidelines like evaluating material combustibility, ensuring effective egress routes, and engaging with rescue services, architects and engineers can significantly enhance building safety practices.
In this episode, we talk about:
• Simple methods yield effective fire safety solutions
• Importance of adhering to foundational fire safety principles
• CPR’s five essential requirements for construction safety
• Load-bearing capacity and material combustibility considerations
• Strategies for minimising fire spread between structures
• Importance of clear egress pathways for building occupants
• Opportunities for enhancing rescue team safety via communication
• Emphasis on redundancy and resiliency in fire safety systems
Each foundational principle allows fire safety practitioners to implement effective strategies that can lead to safer buildings and improved occupant outcomes.
----
The Fire Science Show is produced by the Fire Science Media in collaboration with OFR Consultants. Thank you to the podcast sponsor for their continuous support towards our mission.
Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:00.261 --> 00:00:02.085
Hello everybody, welcome to the Fire Science Show.
00:00:02.085 --> 00:00:07.248
In today's episode we're going to talk about simple things that make our buildings fire safe.
00:00:07.248 --> 00:00:10.121
And by simple things, simple ideas, simple concepts.
00:00:10.121 --> 00:00:16.983
I by no means think they're primitive, irrelevant or should be superseded with something more complicated.
00:00:16.983 --> 00:00:35.347
I think there's a real power in thinking in simple terms and real value in applying those core, fundamental principles, and I think, looking at the world today, at the fire disasters that have happened across the years, I think in many of those it was those simple things that have been missing.
00:00:35.366 --> 00:01:00.567
An idea for this episode came to me when, well, I'm quite following the healthspin, lifespan stuff, right, listening to a lot of podcasts, a lot of things and I find it absolutely fascinating that the world of advanced health, where people talk about all those crazy things optimizing exercise for lactate thresholds, different metabolisms in your mitochondria and stuff like that is pretty crazy.
00:01:00.567 --> 00:01:05.882
I think Hoyt Hotel said once that life sciences and fire science are the most complicated ones.
00:01:05.882 --> 00:01:07.426
I understood the fire part.
00:01:07.426 --> 00:01:08.588
Now I understand the life part.
00:01:08.588 --> 00:01:25.730
Anyway, there are those people who are geeking out on those extremely complicated physiochemical processes but when they are asked about advice what to do to gain healthspan, they will tell you eat less, sleep well, exercise, and it's this simple advice that actually works.
00:01:25.730 --> 00:01:35.146
It's that simple advice that gets you to the point where you want to be, where starting to consider those more advanced things starts to really matter.
00:01:35.146 --> 00:01:50.772
And if you reverse that if you don't know anything about pathways to generate energy in mitochondria, but you eat less, sleep well and exercise, generate energy in mitochondria but you eat less, sleep well and exercise, you're on a very good pathway to achieve the goals, even if you don't know about them.
00:01:50.772 --> 00:01:54.743
So this simple idea is extremely powerful in that space.
00:01:54.784 --> 00:02:01.844
And I was thinking can we find a eat less, sleep well, exercise equivalent for fire safety, for life safety in buildings?
00:02:01.844 --> 00:02:03.969
And that was my quest.
00:02:03.969 --> 00:02:05.033
That's what I tried to do.
00:02:05.033 --> 00:02:06.423
I found some good ideas.
00:02:06.423 --> 00:02:13.181
I really like to resonate with the CPR fundamental objectives for fire safety.
00:02:13.200 --> 00:02:17.893
There are five requirements in CPR for the building materials related to fire safety.
00:02:17.893 --> 00:02:19.926
They're very general, very high level.
00:02:19.926 --> 00:02:23.843
Those things are introduced in different codes across Europe in different forms.
00:02:23.843 --> 00:02:32.030
They're considered sometimes performance-based objectives, sometimes they're functional requirements, sometimes they are just the requirement on which you build further.
00:02:32.030 --> 00:02:34.247
But I think they're very good to start with.
00:02:34.247 --> 00:02:42.567
And to those I would add three more resiliency, redundancy and suppression, and altogether, I find that eight of those.
00:02:42.567 --> 00:02:51.632
If you start applying them to understand the fire safety engineering that you are doing, this will significantly improve the success rate of that engineering.
00:02:52.200 --> 00:02:53.747
Simple things, but they work.
00:02:53.747 --> 00:02:58.171
So let's try and look at stuff that we all already know.
00:02:58.171 --> 00:03:00.728
Nothing new is being told in this episode.
00:03:00.728 --> 00:03:08.991
You know everything that's being told in this episode, but perhaps it will allow you to look at the stuff that you already know through a very different angle.
00:03:08.991 --> 00:03:11.643
So let's spin the intro and jump into the episode.
00:03:16.112 --> 00:03:17.735
Welcome to the Firesize Show.
00:03:17.735 --> 00:03:21.200
My name is Wojciech Wigrzynski and I will be your host.
00:03:21.200 --> 00:03:44.271
This podcast is brought to you in collaboration with Ofar Consultants, a multi-award winning independent consultancy dedicated to addressing fire safety challenges.
00:03:44.271 --> 00:03:55.918
Established in the UK in 2016 as a startup business of two highly experienced fire engineering consultants, the business has grown phenomenally to eight offices across the country, from Edinburgh to Bath.
00:03:55.918 --> 00:04:05.847
Colleagues are on a mission to continually explore the challenges that fire creates for clients and society, applying the best research, experience and diligence for effective, tailored solution.
00:04:05.847 --> 00:04:09.693
In 2025, there will be new opportunities to work with OFR.
00:04:09.693 --> 00:04:20.031
Ofr will grow its team once more and is keen to hear from industry professionals who would like to collaborate on fire safety features this year, get in touch at ofrconsultantscom.
00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:22.444
Oh man, that healthspan space.
00:04:22.444 --> 00:04:23.927
That's so fascinating.
00:04:23.927 --> 00:04:34.050
Perhaps we should make a fire science show episode about functional fitness for fire safety engineer and the importance of maintaining your health in this very difficult profession.
00:04:34.050 --> 00:04:35.942
I could actually invite Danny Hopkins.
00:04:35.942 --> 00:04:39.752
He seems to have some kind of PhD on lactate curves and thresholds.
00:04:39.752 --> 00:04:41.824
That could be an interesting episode.
00:04:41.824 --> 00:05:01.351
But anyway, let's focus on fire safety for today and let's focus on simple ideas that make our buildings fire safe, that make our fire engineering good and that actually kind of work they simply do work the eat less, sleep well, exercise equivalent for fire safety in buildings.
00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:05.091
So I told you I'm going to start with the CPR requirements.
00:05:05.091 --> 00:05:21.512
So CPR construction products regulation is a thing that defines the unified market in European Union and through that it actually achieves some safety objectives because it tells you what you can sell in Europe that can be used in buildings and the role of those things could be related to fire.
00:05:21.512 --> 00:05:27.264
Therefore, the fire is regulated through this pathway and actually it's important to realize.
00:05:27.264 --> 00:05:30.233
Many people don't realize that CPR is not about safety.
00:05:30.233 --> 00:05:31.826
Cpr is about market access.
00:05:31.826 --> 00:05:33.505
It's a market regulation.
00:05:33.505 --> 00:05:37.591
It's not meant to regulate fire safety, but fire safety is a part of it as a whole.
00:05:37.591 --> 00:05:40.959
Anyway, in CPR there are those five requirements.
00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:46.829
I think they've been there since the Construction Products Directiveive, cpd, and most likely they've been there before.
00:05:46.829 --> 00:05:50.002
I'm not sure of the origins of those, but I like them a lot.
00:05:50.002 --> 00:05:57.235
Perhaps if you know the origins of those five clauses you can tell me, and I'll highlight that in the future episodes because I really resonate with them.
00:05:57.576 --> 00:06:10.550
So the construction works must be designed and built in such a way that in an event of outbreak of fire A Load-bearing capacity can be assumed for a specific period of time, b the generation and spread of fire and smoke within construction works are limited.
00:06:10.550 --> 00:06:14.331
C the spread of fire to neighboring construction work is limited.
00:06:14.331 --> 00:06:18.211
D Occupants can leave the construction works or be rescued by other means.
00:06:18.211 --> 00:06:21.971
And E the safety of rescue team is taken into consideration.
00:06:21.971 --> 00:06:27.564
So it tells you that to build a building you need to account for those things.
00:06:27.845 --> 00:06:42.903
Usually the codes and standards in your country would take those general objectives and either give you a more specific requirements that relate to each of them, how you achieve that, and those would go more technical into product standards.
00:06:42.903 --> 00:06:45.108
Those would go more technical into product standards.
00:06:45.108 --> 00:06:53.567
Those would go more technical into some sort of technical documentation that follows the product how to build, maintain, inspect and that's how you would get it engineered.
00:06:53.567 --> 00:07:07.841
But on the top level there is this objective and I would like to focus on the objectives because I would like to read them not as a requirement but as some sort of obligation, goal, pathway to achieving fire safety.
00:07:07.841 --> 00:07:11.550
Let's assume that if you get all of those right you get fire safe buildings.
00:07:11.550 --> 00:07:20.047
So let's go through them and see if we can work them out with some common sense instead of going deep into standards and technical documentation of products.
00:07:20.067 --> 00:07:21.851
So let's start with the load-bearing capacity.
00:07:21.851 --> 00:07:26.031
It says load-bearing capacity of the construction can be assumed for a specific period of time.
00:07:26.031 --> 00:07:28.927
A specific period of time is an interesting one.
00:07:28.927 --> 00:07:30.071
Is it the length of the fire?
00:07:30.071 --> 00:07:31.620
Is it the time it takes people to evacuate?
00:07:31.620 --> 00:07:33.988
Does it include fire rescuers?
00:07:33.988 --> 00:07:36.829
Does it include impact on the surrounding buildings?
00:07:36.829 --> 00:07:45.574
Not an easy question to answer, but anyway, in our codes and standards this would be addressed through concepts of fire resistance or structural fire engineering.
00:07:45.574 --> 00:07:51.911
We've had those episodes in fire science shows, so we know how the deep engineering of that requirement would look like.
00:07:51.911 --> 00:07:57.870
But could you give like rule, of thumb, rules what kind of products lead to satisfying this?
00:07:57.870 --> 00:08:06.141
And I assume that load-bearing capacity in a building in its normal state must be maintained, so the building should not collapse either when you are using it.
00:08:06.141 --> 00:08:08.086
So let's say that's satisfied already.
00:08:08.627 --> 00:08:12.504
And I would say first, I would like my structure to not participate in the fire.
00:08:12.504 --> 00:08:15.732
That's a very big choice for a designer.
00:08:15.732 --> 00:08:21.860
Do you design a structure that participates in a fire or you design a structure that does not participate in fire?
00:08:21.860 --> 00:08:30.375
And this obviously goes down to any sort of timber buildings, any sort of using combustible materials as part of your structure.
00:08:30.375 --> 00:08:39.149
Because if you consider the structure incombustible, completely, does not participate in fire in any way, then you separate the fire problem from the structural problem.
00:08:39.149 --> 00:08:40.355
You can solve them separately.
00:08:40.355 --> 00:08:46.072
If your structure participates in the fire, then there's feedback loop between the fire environment and the structure.
00:08:46.072 --> 00:08:49.610
The structure on its own can become a pathway to spreading the fire.
00:08:49.610 --> 00:08:51.466
It can deteriorate in a different way.
00:08:51.466 --> 00:08:59.868
So definitely that's the first thing and that's a much bigger choice than people would think it is Like does your structure really participate in fire?
00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:23.390
A second would be how quickly it will deteriorate in the fire, and that goes more deeper into the choice of the materials, the layers of your structural materials, and I think it's a very important question the bulkier, the simpler the properties of your materials used for the structure are, the better chance that you satisfy this requirement easier, like if you go with very heavy, bulky materials.
00:09:23.390 --> 00:09:31.570
Of course, there are cases where spalling would be an issue, for concrete for example, but that's a technical challenge Deep, deep, many layers below what we're considering right now.
00:09:31.570 --> 00:09:37.812
If you have a multi-layered material in which you have thin layers exposed to fire, they will deteriorate.
00:09:37.812 --> 00:09:41.168
They will create cavities, they will create pathways for fire to spread.
00:09:41.168 --> 00:09:49.822
If you have some materials to fire protect, they can detach themselves from the structure, they can deteriorate themselves.
00:09:49.822 --> 00:09:51.711
They will have only this limited amount of time that they are going to work.
00:09:51.711 --> 00:10:02.227
Not saying that they will not work, but definitely if you have a simple bulky structure, engineering that is much easier than figuring out additional protection layers to provide this structural safety requirement.
00:10:02.227 --> 00:10:02.950
And with those.
00:10:02.990 --> 00:10:14.057
I would also add one more thing that we rarely consider when we're thinking about fire resistances and materials used for structural fire protection how the structure is interacting with the fire environment on its own.
00:10:14.057 --> 00:10:25.615
The fire lives in some space and the fire in a small room will be different from the fire in a big room, even if it's the same fuel, same ignition, that those will be two different fires.
00:10:25.615 --> 00:10:32.134
So structure and the shape of your building does inadvertently influence fire always.
00:10:32.134 --> 00:10:52.806
And also, if you build your space with a lot of cavities, with a lot of concave spaces, spaces that are difficult to ventilate, spaces in which heat can accumulate, spaces in which fire can thrive, you're going to have a much more challenging time proving that your load-bearing capacity is satisfied for a specific period of time, whatever that period of time is.
00:10:53.147 --> 00:11:02.003
If you make a simple structure, if you make tall spaces, height is such a profound and important thing to consider when designing a space and its fire safety.
00:11:02.003 --> 00:11:04.929
Usually, the taller the space, the safer it will be.
00:11:04.929 --> 00:11:10.190
Of course, if you start stocking stuff all the way to your ceiling, the taller it is, the worse it's going to be.
00:11:10.190 --> 00:11:23.049
But if we're talking about free space from your fire to your ceiling, due to how entrainment works, due to how heat transfer works, due to how smoke layers work, the due to how heat transfer works, due to how smoke layers work, the taller the space, the safer the structure would be.
00:11:23.049 --> 00:11:44.375
So, in fact, even for such a complicated stuff like load-bearing capacity and its maintenance, there are some simple, very basic things that one could consider that will be deciding whether you have a simple, robust system or you have to go into some really high-level fire safety engineering to prove that your building is going to be safe.
00:11:44.375 --> 00:11:46.166
Ah, structure was a tough one.
00:11:46.166 --> 00:11:51.251
Let's see if we can deal better with the generation and spread of fire smoke within the construction work.
00:11:51.600 --> 00:12:01.653
So while the first requirement referred to something we call resistance to fire, this one we would usually relate to something we call reaction to fire, how the materials respond to fire and how they burn.
00:12:01.653 --> 00:12:08.565
And if I would like to think about this in very simple terms, how do I provide this fire safety?
00:12:08.565 --> 00:12:14.383
The first consideration really would be is my material combustible or not?
00:12:14.383 --> 00:12:21.904
To me, when thinking about fire safety engineering of any space, this is the only thing that matters in terms of the material properties.
00:12:21.904 --> 00:12:23.488
Is it combustible or not?
00:12:23.488 --> 00:12:27.164
Because if it's not, that's a certain outcome.
00:12:27.164 --> 00:12:32.381
It's not gonna burn, it's not gonna spread the fire, it's not gonna add to the effects of the fire in my building.
00:12:32.381 --> 00:12:36.649
I'm pretty sure that this will be a fire-safe thing.
00:12:36.649 --> 00:12:46.572
There are ways where you can use fire-safe things in an unsafe way, but 95% of cases this means you don't have an issue at all.
00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:56.850
When your material is combustible but of course has some sort of characteristic, it's perhaps fire-retarded, it has a great Euro class, whatever.
00:12:56.850 --> 00:13:05.100
The only thing that those things change is how surprised you will be when it goes off and burns down Like.
00:13:05.100 --> 00:13:09.687
Really, those characteristics change how those materials ignite.
00:13:09.687 --> 00:13:16.460
Of course they can delay the ignition, they can increase the ignition temperatures, they increase the activation energy required to start the reactions.
00:13:16.460 --> 00:13:17.846
We know that.
00:13:17.846 --> 00:13:19.285
We know that they work.
00:13:19.285 --> 00:13:30.168
But also we know that after some threshold is met, after enough heat is produced within the fire, they will burn and they will participate in the fire.
00:13:30.168 --> 00:13:33.967
They will generate heat, they will make fire greater.
00:13:33.967 --> 00:13:40.581
There is always no chance that them participating in fire will make fire less hazardous or less severe.
00:13:40.581 --> 00:13:41.763
They will make fire worse.
00:13:42.203 --> 00:13:49.243
So if you are using combustible materials, you really need to consider that.
00:13:49.243 --> 00:13:58.472
What's going to happen with them beyond what their fire retarding characteristics give you, like ignition is not the whole story of fire.
00:13:58.472 --> 00:14:06.541
If you only care about whether they can ignite or not, sure, then perhaps you can refer to those types of materials and be good with them.
00:14:06.541 --> 00:14:11.581
But if you really care about the outcomes of a fire in the building, what happens if a fire grows?
00:14:11.581 --> 00:14:14.269
What happens if someone brings a larger fire source to your building?
00:14:14.269 --> 00:14:17.384
What happens if there's a scenario that you have not foreseen?
00:14:17.384 --> 00:14:21.413
If my materials are non-combustible, I'm pretty sure they're not going to combust.
00:14:21.413 --> 00:14:29.745
If they are combustible to some extent, then I probably would need to consider that and it's such a basic thing.
00:14:29.745 --> 00:14:31.530
You know whether it burns or not.
00:14:31.530 --> 00:14:45.149
But when you look at the internet space, where you look at marketing, of course people want to sell materials, all types of materials, and I fully understand the objectives behind bringing plastics into buildings.
00:14:45.149 --> 00:14:53.265
There are some solutions for which the plastic materials are absolutely brilliant and they will solve so many problems of a modern building.
00:14:53.265 --> 00:14:55.488
They're just going to provide you a fire hazard.
00:14:55.701 --> 00:14:58.486
It's not that we should advocate banning all the combustibles.
00:14:58.486 --> 00:15:03.773
We should learn how to live with combustibles in a safe way, and fire safety, engineering them is one way.
00:15:03.773 --> 00:15:15.421
It just triggers me so much when I see, you know, those posts that start let's debunk the myths of, let's say, timber or some other material and they will say it's not going to burn, it's going to char.
00:15:15.421 --> 00:15:23.947
They have these protective layers, protective coatings, whatever magical properties you have, and yes, that's true, they would resist fire.
00:15:23.947 --> 00:15:31.768
They would resist ignition in some scenarios for very specific sources of ignition that are usually defined in the standards.
00:15:31.768 --> 00:15:33.105
That's how you engineer the product.
00:15:33.105 --> 00:15:43.779
You know what test it's going to go through and you design a product to pass the test Doesn't mean it's going to pass every single fire in the building and then you put that product in the market.
00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:51.650
I think a lot of fire engineers are not willing to participate in these discussions or not willing to acknowledge that.
00:15:51.650 --> 00:15:58.480
That any combustible material is potentially a hazard Just depends in which scenario it's going to be involved.
00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:12.296
Essentially, a hazard just depends in which scenario it's going to be involved, and I think a lot of failures of fire safety engineering we've seen throughout the world is simply caused by the fact that someone believed that Euroclass B material or Euroclass C material will have fantastic fire performance.
00:16:12.296 --> 00:16:17.394
They just knew that when the fire will be fairly large, they're still going to ignite and they're still going to burn, and those properties will probably be secondary or maybe even not provide you anything.
00:16:17.394 --> 00:16:23.797
Fire will be fairly large, they're still gonna ignite and they're still gonna burn and those properties will probably be secondary or maybe even not provide you anything.
00:16:23.797 --> 00:16:34.068
I'm not against this industry, but I would love a world in which engineers understand this and and just don't blindly apply a characteristic and and think that all problems are solved.
00:16:34.068 --> 00:16:44.455
And if I think of you know about easy, simple things that we need to consider about building materials, definitely, whether they burn or not is the number one thing.
00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:47.970
Another thing is like what's in the material, what's the chemical composition?
00:16:47.970 --> 00:16:55.933
I had David Purser in the podcast where he talked a lot about toxicity and how smoke is created.
00:16:55.933 --> 00:16:58.726
The chemistry of it is fascinating episodes.
00:16:58.726 --> 00:17:01.524
I highly recommend them if you've not seen them.
00:17:01.524 --> 00:17:19.027
And David said that the chemical composition is critical for materials Like if you don't have nitrogen in the material, you're not going to have HCN as a product of the fire, and this goes for many materials, depending on what's inside that drives what can go outside of it.
00:17:19.027 --> 00:17:27.906
All the smoke is toxic, all the smoke is hazardous, but some materials will just generate much worse products than other ones.
00:17:27.906 --> 00:17:38.964
And understanding what's been in the materials, I think is also quite important when we design spaces and especially if we design spaces in which evacuation can be difficult.
00:17:38.964 --> 00:17:44.494
Let's say, hospitals or maybe tall buildings where you could expect some people to be exposed to smoke.
00:17:44.494 --> 00:18:03.665
So there's no really easy way to satisfy the generation and spread of fire and smoke within the construction works by a single mean, but considering whether something can burn or not and what's it made of can really influence the course of your considerations regarding to this particular requirement.
00:18:04.228 --> 00:18:05.309
Let's move to the third one.
00:18:05.309 --> 00:18:09.045
The spread of fire to neighboring construction works is limited.
00:18:09.045 --> 00:18:19.443
This is a very interesting one and if I look this is my personal, honest opinion If I look at the Palisades fire in Ley, for me the buildings were ridiculously close to each other.
00:18:19.443 --> 00:18:34.768
I'm not even sure if there is a way that you could satisfy this requirement in such a densely built environment with a lot of buildings so close to each other, with the spaces between the buildings which are filled with vegetation.
00:18:34.768 --> 00:18:42.981
It's just for me, I'm not sure if I could engineer that in a safe way without making the buildings further away.
00:18:43.564 --> 00:18:45.126
And this is a really simple thing.
00:18:45.126 --> 00:18:56.023
If you want to build a building that's standing in an empty space surrounded by emptiness non-combustible emptiness then you solve the problem.
00:18:56.023 --> 00:18:59.714
There's no spread of fire to neighboring construction works right, then you solve the problem.
00:18:59.714 --> 00:19:01.519
There's no spread of fire to neighboring construction works, right?
00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:14.690
If you build in a dense urban environment or maybe in a national park or in some other wuy area, you start to be considering how your construction work affects its surroundings and how the surroundings will affect your construction work.
00:19:14.690 --> 00:19:32.492
And it's not just about building material, it's not something that you can solve on your own as well, because the surroundings of your building are also going to affect how vulnerable your house is or your building is and, in that context, how your building will spread the hazard further.
00:19:32.492 --> 00:19:50.842
And I think, while we have some general guidelines, in Poland we have guidelines of how far you need to put the building from the edge of your plot, for example, and that also is related to the type of a building on the adjacent plot, to the amount of windows that buildings have and so on.
00:19:50.842 --> 00:19:56.269
I think those are pretty good practical requirements for placing the buildings in safe distances.
00:19:56.269 --> 00:20:11.051
But you need to consider that safe distance Like at, to consider that safe distance, like at what distance your building is going to create hazard, and I think, again, many people would oversimplify this and would not really give this a really thorough consideration.
00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:12.021
And today.
00:20:12.021 --> 00:20:21.383
We also know that it's not just radiation from the external plumes, it's not just this direct impact of fires, but it's also, perhaps, firebrands generation.
00:20:21.383 --> 00:20:36.569
At this point we don't really have good grasp on how much firebrands are generated in building fires, while we recognize that once the wildland fire reaches human development and houses start igniting, the firebrand showers change.
00:20:36.569 --> 00:20:40.023
You suddenly have a completely different type of a firebrand shower.
00:20:40.023 --> 00:20:51.704
I've had this discussion with Albert Simoni in the podcast episode about WE fires shortly after Maui fires, once the first house is hit, it starts producing firebrands and that's going to spread.
00:20:51.704 --> 00:20:55.439
It's not something we address yet in our building codes.
00:20:55.439 --> 00:21:00.839
Perhaps there are building codes that address that, but it's something that a fire safety engineer should be aware.
00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:09.844
So my simple overview of the spread of fire in neighboring construction, of how your building is going to spread the fire to neighboring construction, is how far.
00:21:09.844 --> 00:21:26.529
It is Very simple thing to consider and a very important lens to view your project and how much stuff it can generate that will spread far away and to what extent it's going to be vulnerable to stuff coming its way from the outside.
00:21:26.529 --> 00:21:32.675
That's another thing how vulnerable your house is or your building is to the firebend showers.
00:21:32.675 --> 00:21:36.726
Okay, so we've covered three of them, two more to go After we finish them.
00:21:36.766 --> 00:21:38.670
I'll probably reiterate the main points.
00:21:38.670 --> 00:21:43.053
Let's move to the occupants can leave the construction works or be rescued by other means.
00:21:43.053 --> 00:21:50.051
So we're now considering the fire safety through the lens of evacuation and being able to escape your buildings.
00:21:50.051 --> 00:22:02.424
And, of course, when a building fire happens, you don't want to have your occupants to be affected by the fire, which means they've escaped the building, and different building codes would impose different regulations.
00:22:02.424 --> 00:22:09.009
Some would just give you the travel distances or widths of your pathways, number of staircases.
00:22:09.009 --> 00:22:19.011
Some would tell you to run analysis, perhaps available versus required safe evacuation type of analysis, to prove that evacuation can happen.
00:22:19.011 --> 00:22:35.021
Those would be very, again, deep fire engineering considerations that we are used to be doing, but if we take a step back and look at the general principles, so first, yes, we want people to be able to escape from the fire, from the building.
00:22:35.021 --> 00:22:40.693
For that they need sufficient capacity of exits and evacuation pathways.
00:22:40.693 --> 00:22:45.349
In some buildings I would say this is less of a problem.
00:22:45.349 --> 00:22:47.741
Any pathway through which a person can go is good.
00:22:47.741 --> 00:22:58.383
In some buildings, like sports arenas, where you have to evacuate tens of thousands of people at the same time, having this capacity matching the capacity of the building is absolutely critical.
00:22:58.383 --> 00:23:05.605
That's a fire engineering problem, but in general the high level perspective is that you need to provide those people a space to escape.
00:23:05.605 --> 00:23:15.905
And now some things that could end up really bad and I think an engineer should really look at that perhaps are not listed in the code that explicitly.
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:25.656
I like to look at my projects in to what extent I have dead ends in my building, especially dead ends in which a person could be surprised by the fire.
00:23:25.656 --> 00:23:31.913
This especially something that I look into when I'm designing car parks enclosed car parks, underground car parks.
00:23:31.913 --> 00:24:07.490
Sometimes the developers tend to make those labyrinth style car parks where you drive around, let's say, the core of the building, for example, and you park in a very remote space at the end of a very long pathway that curves multiple times, and to me those dead ends are very challenging because I imagine that there could be a person out there which does not see the entirety of the car park and if the fire happens in a different part of the car park and that person, for example, is cleaning their vehicle, having a loud vacuum cleaner with them, they could be actually surprised by the smoke coming their way.
00:24:07.490 --> 00:24:18.911
They would not know the fire is happening in the building and at that point the smoke would be coming through the only escape path that person has, creating a really potentially lethal trap to that person.
00:24:18.911 --> 00:24:22.284
And the same goes to corridors with dead ends.
00:24:22.284 --> 00:24:25.996
The same happens to the way how layouts of buildings are built.
00:24:25.996 --> 00:24:33.904
If people venture into a space from which they will have no escape and they are unable to go back to the way they have entered, you create a trap.
00:24:33.904 --> 00:24:37.121
And I believe this is how many, many people have perished in fires.
00:24:37.121 --> 00:24:43.692
And it's not because well, sometimes it would be because sometime someone broke a law or designed it incorrectly.
00:24:43.692 --> 00:24:58.522
But I believe not enough consideration was given to the problem of whether you will always have a pathway to escape and having those two pathways and if you don't have two pathways, completely independent pathways to escape.
00:24:58.522 --> 00:25:07.028
Making sure that the person has ample time to escape with this single in all considerations allows them to safely find the route to pathway to escape.
00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:42.410
Another aspect of this which perhaps is not appreciated enough in many engineering projects is that you also need good information about the fire, so people not only have to have you know the ability, the means of escape I like the term means of escape.
00:25:42.410 --> 00:25:52.644
They not only have means to escape, but they also have information that a fire is happening and they need to escape right now and they have to have knowledge on how to do that.
00:25:52.644 --> 00:26:00.270
And this information layer would be as important as the building layer in your project and it's not that you can replace one with the other.
00:26:00.270 --> 00:26:02.367
Both have to exist in a project.
00:26:02.367 --> 00:26:08.786
And it is especially difficult because the knowledge part comes with the building users and we as building designers.
00:26:08.786 --> 00:26:10.003
We commission a building.
00:26:10.003 --> 00:26:10.867
Our job is done.
00:26:10.867 --> 00:26:16.969
So it's not that we're going to stay in the project and educate the users of the building on how to escape it.
00:26:16.969 --> 00:26:20.061
We need to create some tool set that allows the building on how to escape it.
00:26:20.061 --> 00:26:23.893
We need to create some tool set that allows the building operator to convey that knowledge to the building users.
00:26:24.320 --> 00:26:49.192
So that's quite a big information challenge to do and I would say it's extremely important to understand how big difference this makes in a building evacuation case BD-7974.6 or going to Reno's paper from NIST on pre-evacuation time distributions, how vastly different those times are in different types of occupancies.
00:26:49.192 --> 00:26:51.748
This must be recognized by the engineer.
00:26:51.748 --> 00:27:02.394
This must be understood and the risks related to building a building in which the occupants will be highly trained, there will be high level of maintenance support, there will be fire wardens on every floor.
00:27:02.394 --> 00:27:07.815
The risks are completely different from a space where you may have random people who just ventured there.
00:27:07.815 --> 00:27:10.303
They are not trained and there's no one to manage them.
00:27:10.303 --> 00:27:27.349
Those are two completely different buildings and I think more care has to be given to this very fundamental consideration how people will be informed about the event of fire and how knowledgeable the people will be about how to escape this building in the case of a fire.
00:27:27.349 --> 00:27:32.770
Very simple thoughts, but they really need good consideration by the engineering team.
00:27:33.141 --> 00:27:41.624
I also had this very interesting episode with Michael Woodrow in this podcast and he was using the examples like this very, very simple ideas that you want.
00:27:41.624 --> 00:27:47.567
Tell the architects that you want people to be able to leave the building and they can work solutions around.
00:27:47.567 --> 00:27:55.068
That that's good communication, that's great communication in the engineering team and that's also something I would be advocating for.
00:27:55.068 --> 00:28:08.326
And then here I also can plug that I have another podcast on COVID Witness in which the means of escape and this good communication crafting good tools to communicate to building users are covered in depth in like eight episodes.
00:28:08.326 --> 00:28:11.179
If you enjoy this, you'll definitely enjoy that one.
00:28:12.250 --> 00:28:21.317
The final one on my list, coming from the CPR, is the safety of rescue teams is taken into consideration, and that is a really tough one.
00:28:21.317 --> 00:28:35.181
A really tough one for us fire safety engineers, because we're not fire rescuers Perhaps some of you are, and I believe that this is absolutely fantastic to have this type of experience as a fire safety engineer.
00:28:35.181 --> 00:28:38.220
I do not have this experience, but I wish I had.
00:28:38.220 --> 00:28:42.913
I know a lot of good fire safety engineers are also voluntary firefighters.
00:28:42.913 --> 00:28:49.032
I think that this really builds up your understanding of this aspect of rescue team fire safety.
00:28:49.032 --> 00:28:58.038
So we often do things that are meant to help the fire rescuers, but I think the main thing is you need to talk with them.
00:00:00.261 --> 00:00:02.085
00:00:02.085 --> 00:00:07.248
00:00:07.248 --> 00:00:10.121
00:00:10.121 --> 00:00:16.983
00:00:16.983 --> 00:00:35.347
00:00:35.366 --> 00:01:00.567
00:01:00.567 --> 00:01:05.882
00:01:05.882 --> 00:01:07.426
00:01:07.426 --> 00:01:08.588
00:01:08.588 --> 00:01:25.730
00:01:25.730 --> 00:01:35.146
00:01:35.146 --> 00:01:50.772
00:01:50.772 --> 00:01:54.743
00:01:54.784 --> 00:02:01.844
00:02:01.844 --> 00:02:03.969
00:02:03.969 --> 00:02:05.033
00:02:05.033 --> 00:02:06.423
00:02:06.423 --> 00:02:13.181
00:02:13.200 --> 00:02:17.893
00:02:17.893 --> 00:02:19.926
00:02:19.926 --> 00:02:23.843
00:02:23.843 --> 00:02:32.030
00:02:32.030 --> 00:02:34.247
00:02:34.247 --> 00:02:42.567
00:02:42.567 --> 00:02:51.632
00:02:52.200 --> 00:02:53.747
00:02:53.747 --> 00:02:58.171
00:02:58.171 --> 00:03:00.728
00:03:00.728 --> 00:03:08.991
00:03:08.991 --> 00:03:11.643
00:03:16.112 --> 00:03:17.735
00:03:17.735 --> 00:03:21.200
00:03:21.200 --> 00:03:44.271
00:03:44.271 --> 00:03:55.918
00:03:55.918 --> 00:04:05.847
00:04:05.847 --> 00:04:09.693
00:04:09.693 --> 00:04:20.031
00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:22.444
00:04:22.444 --> 00:04:23.927
00:04:23.927 --> 00:04:34.050
00:04:34.050 --> 00:04:35.942
00:04:35.942 --> 00:04:39.752
00:04:39.752 --> 00:04:41.824
00:04:41.824 --> 00:05:01.351
00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:05.091
00:05:05.091 --> 00:05:21.512
00:05:21.512 --> 00:05:27.264
00:05:27.264 --> 00:05:30.233
00:05:30.233 --> 00:05:31.826
00:05:31.826 --> 00:05:33.505
00:05:33.505 --> 00:05:37.591
00:05:37.591 --> 00:05:40.959
00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:46.829
00:05:46.829 --> 00:05:50.002
00:05:50.002 --> 00:05:57.235
00:05:57.576 --> 00:06:10.550
00:06:10.550 --> 00:06:14.331
00:06:14.331 --> 00:06:18.211
00:06:18.211 --> 00:06:21.971
00:06:21.971 --> 00:06:27.564
00:06:27.845 --> 00:06:42.903
00:06:42.903 --> 00:06:45.108
00:06:45.108 --> 00:06:53.567
00:06:53.567 --> 00:07:07.841
00:07:07.841 --> 00:07:11.550
00:07:11.550 --> 00:07:20.047
00:07:20.067 --> 00:07:21.851
00:07:21.851 --> 00:07:26.031
00:07:26.031 --> 00:07:28.927
00:07:28.927 --> 00:07:30.071
00:07:30.071 --> 00:07:31.620
00:07:31.620 --> 00:07:33.988
00:07:33.988 --> 00:07:36.829
00:07:36.829 --> 00:07:45.574
00:07:45.574 --> 00:07:51.911
00:07:51.911 --> 00:07:57.870
00:07:57.870 --> 00:08:06.141
00:08:06.141 --> 00:08:08.086
00:08:08.627 --> 00:08:12.504
00:08:12.504 --> 00:08:15.732
00:08:15.732 --> 00:08:21.860
00:08:21.860 --> 00:08:30.375
00:08:30.375 --> 00:08:39.149
00:08:39.149 --> 00:08:40.355
00:08:40.355 --> 00:08:46.072
00:08:46.072 --> 00:08:49.610
00:08:49.610 --> 00:08:51.466
00:08:51.466 --> 00:08:59.868
00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:23.390
00:09:23.390 --> 00:09:31.570
00:09:31.570 --> 00:09:37.812
00:09:37.812 --> 00:09:41.168
00:09:41.168 --> 00:09:49.822
00:09:49.822 --> 00:09:51.711
00:09:51.711 --> 00:10:02.227
00:10:02.227 --> 00:10:02.950
00:10:02.990 --> 00:10:14.057
00:10:14.057 --> 00:10:25.615
00:10:25.615 --> 00:10:32.134
00:10:32.134 --> 00:10:52.806
00:10:53.147 --> 00:11:02.003
00:11:02.003 --> 00:11:04.929
00:11:04.929 --> 00:11:10.190
00:11:10.190 --> 00:11:23.049
00:11:23.049 --> 00:11:44.375
00:11:44.375 --> 00:11:46.166
00:11:46.166 --> 00:11:51.251
00:11:51.600 --> 00:12:01.653
00:12:01.653 --> 00:12:08.565
00:12:08.565 --> 00:12:14.383
00:12:14.383 --> 00:12:21.904
00:12:21.904 --> 00:12:23.488
00:12:23.488 --> 00:12:27.164
00:12:27.164 --> 00:12:32.381
00:12:32.381 --> 00:12:36.649
00:12:36.649 --> 00:12:46.572
00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:56.850
00:12:56.850 --> 00:13:05.100
00:13:05.100 --> 00:13:09.687
00:13:09.687 --> 00:13:16.460
00:13:16.460 --> 00:13:17.846
00:13:17.846 --> 00:13:19.285
00:13:19.285 --> 00:13:30.168
00:13:30.168 --> 00:13:33.967
00:13:33.967 --> 00:13:40.581
00:13:40.581 --> 00:13:41.763
00:13:42.203 --> 00:13:49.243
00:13:49.243 --> 00:13:58.472
00:13:58.472 --> 00:14:06.541
00:14:06.541 --> 00:14:11.581
00:14:11.581 --> 00:14:14.269
00:14:14.269 --> 00:14:17.384
00:14:17.384 --> 00:14:21.413
00:14:21.413 --> 00:14:29.745
00:14:29.745 --> 00:14:31.530
00:14:31.530 --> 00:14:45.149
00:14:45.149 --> 00:14:53.265
00:14:53.265 --> 00:14:55.488
00:14:55.701 --> 00:14:58.486
00:14:58.486 --> 00:15:03.773
00:15:03.773 --> 00:15:15.421
00:15:15.421 --> 00:15:23.947
00:15:23.947 --> 00:15:31.768
00:15:31.768 --> 00:15:33.105
00:15:33.105 --> 00:15:43.779
00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:51.650
00:15:51.650 --> 00:15:58.480
00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:12.296
00:16:12.296 --> 00:16:17.394
00:16:17.394 --> 00:16:23.797
00:16:23.797 --> 00:16:34.068
00:16:34.068 --> 00:16:44.455
00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:47.970
00:16:47.970 --> 00:16:55.933
00:16:55.933 --> 00:16:58.726
00:16:58.726 --> 00:17:01.524
00:17:01.524 --> 00:17:19.027
00:17:19.027 --> 00:17:27.906
00:17:27.906 --> 00:17:38.964
00:17:38.964 --> 00:17:44.494
00:17:44.494 --> 00:18:03.665
00:18:04.228 --> 00:18:05.309
00:18:05.309 --> 00:18:09.045
00:18:09.045 --> 00:18:19.443
00:18:19.443 --> 00:18:34.768
00:18:34.768 --> 00:18:42.981
00:18:43.564 --> 00:18:45.126
00:18:45.126 --> 00:18:56.023
00:18:56.023 --> 00:18:59.714
00:18:59.714 --> 00:19:01.519
00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:14.690
00:19:14.690 --> 00:19:32.492
00:19:32.492 --> 00:19:50.842
00:19:50.842 --> 00:19:56.269
00:19:56.269 --> 00:20:11.051
00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:12.021
00:20:12.021 --> 00:20:21.383
00:20:21.383 --> 00:20:36.569
00:20:36.569 --> 00:20:40.023
00:20:40.023 --> 00:20:51.704
00:20:51.704 --> 00:20:55.439
00:20:55.439 --> 00:21:00.839
00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:09.844
00:21:09.844 --> 00:21:26.529
00:21:26.529 --> 00:21:32.675
00:21:32.675 --> 00:21:36.726
00:21:36.766 --> 00:21:38.670
00:21:38.670 --> 00:21:43.053
00:21:43.053 --> 00:21:50.051
00:21:50.051 --> 00:22:02.424
00:22:02.424 --> 00:22:09.009
00:22:09.009 --> 00:22:19.011
00:22:19.011 --> 00:22:35.021
00:22:35.021 --> 00:22:40.693
00:22:40.693 --> 00:22:45.349
00:22:45.349 --> 00:22:47.741
00:22:47.741 --> 00:22:58.383
00:22:58.383 --> 00:23:05.605
00:23:05.605 --> 00:23:15.905
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:25.656
00:23:25.656 --> 00:23:31.913
00:23:31.913 --> 00:24:07.490
00:24:07.490 --> 00:24:18.911
00:24:18.911 --> 00:24:22.284
00:24:22.284 --> 00:24:25.996
00:24:25.996 --> 00:24:33.904
00:24:33.904 --> 00:24:37.121
00:24:37.121 --> 00:24:43.692
00:24:43.692 --> 00:24:58.522
00:24:58.522 --> 00:25:07.028
00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:42.410
00:25:42.410 --> 00:25:52.644
00:25:52.644 --> 00:26:00.270
00:26:00.270 --> 00:26:02.367
00:26:02.367 --> 00:26:08.786
00:26:08.786 --> 00:26:10.003
00:26:10.003 --> 00:26:10.867
00:26:10.867 --> 00:26:16.969
00:26:16.969 --> 00:26:20.061
00:26:20.061 --> 00:26:23.893
00:26:24.320 --> 00:26:49.192
00:26:49.192 --> 00:26:51.748
00:26:51.748 --> 00:27:02.394
00:27:02.394 --> 00:27:07.815
00:27:07.815 --> 00:27:10.303
00:27:10.303 --> 00:27:27.349
00:27:27.349 --> 00:27:32.770
00:27:33.141 --> 00:27:41.624
00:27:41.624 --> 00:27:47.567
00:27:47.567 --> 00:27:55.068
00:27:55.068 --> 00:28:08.326
00:28:08.326 --> 00:28:11.179
00:28:12.250 --> 00:28:21.317
00:28:21.317 --> 00:28:35.181
00:28:35.181 --> 00:28:38.220
00:28:38.220 --> 00:28:42.913
00:28:42.913 --> 00:28:49.032
00:28:49.032 --> 00:28:58.038